#177 Grief is Unique as Fingerprints, Not Vanilla

The way we each grieve is as unique as our fingerprints. Many of us have more stages than the 'proscribed stages', or include lengthy stays in some while omitting others. And what about the biases and judgements we have about certain stages, how does this affect our ability to allow others to utilize those emotions and behaviors in order to process their grief? And where does respect for those we have passed fit into the grieving process? Can our need to grieve be disrespectful? Or...have those who passed grown in their capacity for compassion, love, forgiveness, and understand the many ways people need to grieve?

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello and welcome to the Lucidus Podcast where I explore everything because I believe everything is connected to everything else. I also believe in the infinite unbounded potential within each of us. And I'm finding that one of those infinite unbounded potentials is love and compassion and grief and understanding and so many more things. So I wanted to talk about grieving and the process of grieving. And I have nothing new to say.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

So if you've already read it and heard it, then there's nothing new.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

It's so interesting to have been through the grief process so many times in my life, through so many different ways. Um painful grief, um, sorrowful grief, uh, the grief of loss, the grief of something never happening. I mean just you know, plenty of avenues of grief. And each one is slightly different. And there I am in another new one.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

I don't really feel like sharing. I don't feel like I don't feel like teaching or demonstrating or reviewing or I don't feel like doing a podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

And I've talked about this before, but that isn't my goal is to put on a performance or you know, show off something or to prove something or um it's literally just to share.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Uh it's almost like to show to almost in a way to remind myself to remind others like what is it to be human?

SPEAKER_00 2:26

What is it to have a body and a brain that sometimes work together, sometimes don't work together, and then this whole other ephemeral, spiritual or cosmic or universal or eternal or nothing, I don't even know. Um so you know, the loss of my friend, we had a a gathering the other night, and it was, I guess we were, I don't know, 15 to 20 of us. And um, it was really beautiful, and we all very much needed it. Um still lovely potluck, and then sitting in a circle and just talking, and it was so I really didn't have anything to say. I needed to be there, like I just needed to be in the presence of others that were grieving this person that knew this person that going through whatever process they were going through, but I didn't really have much to say, didn't say much. Um, but it was so fascinating to me to be able to witness other people's grief and where they were in their process and the kind of like tone their process had. And I don't know that I've ever been able to do that before, been able to my grief in the past has been so big and all-consuming that it was just my grief and I was grieving whatever was happening with someone else. I I couldn't even really have noticed it, so to speak, or if I noticed it, it was very kind of like, oh, whatever, and then it passed. And um, I'm so much more present with my grief this time. Um, I'm so much more willing to grieve and to let it be whatever it needs to be, and it's interesting in that I've been much more capable to be able to see other people's grief and their process and and let them have whatever process they have. Meaning, I've always I've never tended, anger has never been a big part of my grieving process. It's more just been like despair, despondency, depression. But I know those are stages as well, but um anger hasn't sort of been my go-to. Um the mania certainly has been. That's been part of it. Um but some of those other ones that I don't that I don't often utilize in the grief process, they they rub me wrong. They're like I don't like them, which is probably why I I don't utilize them, is because I don't know how or who knows why. Just not my my bias, I would almost say it's like a bias. And what I wanted to say is it's been interesting for me to see other people in their process, and some of them I understand, and I and I like can very much resonate with it, and I'm either moving through some of those faces in my own, or I've done it in the past, and but then there are other people, and I'm like, wow, I've never been like that during a grief process. Um, like I said, anger is a big one, and um and and it was interesting for me because it was what was sort of comforting to me this time is that when I have seen other people in their process in one of those stages that I have a bias against and I don't really like, I was able to see my bias, I was able to sort of not even see it but feel my bias. I was like, oh, I don't like the way they're I don't like where they are in their grieving process. And I was like, oh, but that's very different than there's something wrong with their grieving process. Um it was, oh, I have a bias against the way they're behaving in their grief process. Not that there's anything wrong with their grief process, I have a judgment and a bias about it. And then I thought about it and I was like, well, but what what is wrong with the way they're grieving? Well, nothing really. I just don't like it, I don't appreciate it, it's not the way I do it. And I was, and in that moment, there was just like this incredible acceptance and softening of, oh, that's their process, and and this is my process. It was like being able to see my bias suddenly allowed them to have their own process because I realized, oh, it's just my own bias. And and it's I'm sure it's absolutely also related to the fact that I don't really have any biases against all that's coming up for me. I'm just like, oh, well, here's this and here's this and here's this, and um, but it's been such a relief not to judge other people's process, um, not to need them to process it in a certain way, also to be able to support them wherever they are. It's like, oh, this is how you are. Yeah, I can absolutely understand that that you know, that that is uh that is part of your grief process. And I, yeah, that's almost like it's in a way, you know, that between the whole room, it's like we had everyone, everything covered, you know, because there's far more than 15 to 20 emotions, I think, that you feel during the grief process. But it was like each one of us, each of us had something covered, and so as a whole, we were closer to covering, you know, the totality of what grief is, because grief is multifaceted for sure, multi, multi, multi, multifaceted. You know, so that's been interesting to be able to not only have my own process in this, but to witness others' process, appreciate others' process, see my own biases and judgments about other people's process. And really, and and and quickly let go of those and be like, oh yeah, there's actually nothing wrong. And it's interesting. One of the things that as I was thinking about it, one of the things that came to me is um we have an interesting, we have some interesting societal, cultural, I don't even know, kind of stigmas against how a dead person should be treated. And I don't think they should not be treated with respect. That's not what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

What I'm saying is when I die, I believe, because I already do.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

So I believe if I can help have it in human form, I can probably have it in whatever form I'll be after, whether it's spirit or ash. I don't know. But whatever, but I believe that when I die, that my heart will be big enough to hold space for everyone to go through whatever they need to when they grieve me. When I die, if someone hates me and they need to scream and yell, I absolutely will support that and love them and know that if that is what you need to do in your grief process, I absolutely and it won't change the way I love them. I'll be like, yes, if that is what you need to do to grieve, absolutely. You know, this person, you know, maybe all tears. Absolutely. You need to grieve in tears, absolutely. This person may be, you know, whatever, you know, this person may be whatever. This is I I believe my heart will be big enough to hold space for however someone needs to grieve. Meaning, I I do want to respect and honor those who have come before. And I also believe there's plenty of space for all of us to grieve in the way we need, and it's not a form of disrespect. And I certainly will not be disrespected if someone needs to, you know, how someone needs to behave in their grief process when I die. I I won't see that as disrespect. I'll actually see it as a great form of care. Like they really care, and this is they care so much that this is the only way they can deal with it. You know, they care so much that they're they're talking about it, they're thinking about it, they're crying about it, they're angry about it, they're confused about it, they're you know, whatever, they're hating me, like whatever. Right? They're all forms of of trying to try almost trying to release the love that's underneath, right? And we have to go through a lot of things sometimes where people pass before we get to the truth of the love. Um so it just, you know, I don't I think it I think we can respect someone who's passed, and we can also emotionally, mentally, physically express all that we need to in order to grieve the loss. Um without it without it being disrespectful. They're all forms of just trying to cope and understand and and get to the core love, you know, to be able to um to to love, you know, because it's the loss is kind of a it kind of it feels a little bit like it freezes the love inside because it's like, oh if you love, you're going to feel this, you know, hurt. You're going to feel that. So it kind of almost like hardens or calcifies a little bit, and it's like we have to go through this process and remember to let it be soft again and to just know that that is that it's going to be part of this whole thing. Um, I don't think I've done a podcast since I went to my friend's funeral who's 105. If I have, that's okay. Um, and it was so fascinating there as well to see um her children who of course are much are in the older generation. I mean, if she's 105, you can imagine where her children fall, um, and her children and grandchildren, and just how each of them said in such different ways. It's just I feel like grief is and it's true for all of us. Like we all have we all think different things are funny, right? We all know that different things are funny. Some people think it's funny, some people don't. We all like different colors, we all like different foods, we all wear different clothes, you know, and it comes to grief, and I think there's this idea that we should, even though it's known, and even though there's like the stages of grief or like whatever that grief is no, we should no, we should not hold grief to a standard any higher than whether people like pizza. I mean, or whether you know, whether people and what they want to even like it or don't like it, whether they you know want cheese or no, like you know, white sauce or red sauce, pepperoni, no pepperoni, but it's like when we talk about grief, we should literally be talking about whether you actually like something or don't like something. I mean, it's so varied, it's so variable. It it has to be, it has to be a personal process that everybody goes through. And the thing is, is it's not even the same. I've never grieved two people the same, ever. I've never, my parents couldn't have been more night and day. The way I grieved my dad was not at all the way my process with my mom went. I've never grieved two of my friends the same.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

You know, I just no two griefs, no two griefs have been the same.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

You know, my grandmothers, I didn't grieve them the same. They couldn't have been more different. You know, they just I just don't think you I don't think we sort of choose the way. That's the other thing is I don't think you choose the way someone's loss, the loss of someone's gonna hit. You know, I've had a few conversations, you know, there are people that have known this man for 30 years, you know, and they're deeply, deeply affected and all that kind of stuff. And then there's some of us who have known him a much shorter time, and and some of those people are like, oh yeah, that's too bad, and they're done. Like they're like that, it just wasn't, didn't hit them. And then there are a few of us that have been like somehow we really connected with this person, and although we've known him a lot less in time, there was much more of an intense connection, and the loss has has been more acute, you know. It's and I also think the way is part of it was it seems like you know, those of us that have known him less time but feel it more acutely, it seems like a lot of it was the way that we interacted with him. I mean, music is a very powerful space, and to make beautiful music with someone for a few years is you know, and it's one of my most like treasured spaces. Music is and singing and so to share that space with someone and make such beautiful music and then to suddenly have them gone, um, it would have been different than if maybe it was someone that I went hiking with, you know, which I also actually really love. But you know, like if it was someone that had fit into a different area of my life, I don't think it would have affected me the same way. But I don't know. Um also was part of it was just the kind of person that um I just it's I feel like it's like a I just it's like a cautionary tale. It's like I'm not telling you how to grieve or all the stages of grieve or what to expect or what that you should do or da da da I don't have it just feels like a cautionary tale about judging yourself and your grief process. But if you do that, then don't judge other people and their grief process. Um because you don't know. You don't know what they need to grieve. And I also think you can sort of relax the the respect, you know, respect the dead. Um I believe both of my parents love me to death. They're both past. And I've had moments where I've yelled at both of them. Been like, Dad, you know, I'm pissed off at you, and you uh when they were dead, uh when they're dead, you know. Same with my grandparents. There were times where I was like mad at my grandma about something. I'm like, this is bullshit, like blah blah blah blah blah. I I I mean, there are probably people who are like, Oh, you shouldn't yell at dead people. I did, I have conversation, you know, and I don't think that's I'm not being disrespectful. I'm being human, I want to say something, I have emotions, I'm upset, you know, I get to say things. Um I don't find it disrespectful. I'm actually having a relationship. I mean, that's a huge form of respect. Like I said, when I die, you know, if my kids, if my siblings, if whatever, you know, friends are just like, you know, if I'm sitting up in heaven or whatever, sitting on my favorite cloud sliding by, you know, looking down and somebody's reeling at me, I'm gonna be like, Abs, yeah, absolutely. Like if that is where you are, I don't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't hate them, I wouldn't find it disrespectful. I would, I would have so much compassion, so much compassion. They were all they're obviously hurting and so much love. You know, they're obviously hurting and they obviously care, and this is the way they're moving through it. I just, you know, I think we need to be careful about stigmatizing respect for the dead, um, and not let that like put somehow you can't grieve in the way you need, you know, like it's just again, it's that whole puritanical thing that I talked about, which I was something I really am tired of being like puritanical with my feelings, you know, my emotions when I really care. So a group of us, small group of us, got together and had a little music session today, and they were friends of of my the friend that passed. And when we went to leave, I and I always am so grateful, and I always I always say that. But before I left, I said, I know I always say it, but I don't think you understand the words don't convey how I really feel. Thank you for making beautiful music with me today. And I could tell everybody was a little bit uncomfortable. It's that moment where it's like, oh, she's really like, she's really saying how she feels. I can feel it, I can see it. And and I just was I let them be uncomfortable because I was like, I want, I was like, I want you to know. I don't want you to ever guess. I care that much about what we do here and about you.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

And I've just been, you know, more just human. It's more human about expressing how I feel.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

And the funny thing is, is the more I do it, it's just like the more compassion comes out and the more the more there's so much room for people to be who and how they are. I want to tell you something. I had an ayahuasca experience early, early on. I think I was in Peru, maybe I was in Costa Rica, it was one of those ones. Anyway, I it was one of the ones where this was like 20 years ago, it was a long time ago, um, before everybody was doing it in their living rooms in America. And I was with a third generation curindea from Peru. And um I guess I was with her in both Peru and Costa Rica. That's I know it was her, but I can't remember where I was. Doesn't matter. I'm pretty sure I was in Peru when I had this one. And a big part of all of my ayahuasca ceremonies, a huge part, was always how can I be Better mother. Please show me how I can be a better mother. And it was interesting because she would show me things about myself, things I need to work on in myself. It wasn't like it wasn't like, oh, well, go do this with the kids or go like I did enough with the kids. I did it everything I could with the kids, but it was like, you need to fix this in yourself. And that will make you a better mother. You need to fix this, not fix this, but take a look at this kind of thing. So, you know, why the sound noise again? I'm like, how can I, you know, how can I be a better mother? Well, I don't think I said that exactly because I was like, how, like, what is love? Was asked because I was, you know, love is such a, I mean, still. So, you know, great grandmother ayahuasca showed me what love was and how she showed me, I'll never forget. And I'm gonna describe it. It's was like, and it's gonna, it's gonna be one one millionth of what the experience was, but I hope it gets across. So in it, she put, I can't remember who it was, she put someone that I loved, like in this bubble. And I was like, okay, and she goes, you know, imagine that the bubble is love. And I was like, okay, so there's a little person inside this bubble, and then the bubble started growing and growing and growing and growing and growing, and it was just it didn't stop, it didn't stop, it didn't stop, it didn't, and it just got so massive, it was just I was just like overwhelmed. I was just this huge energy, it was huge, until like the person inside was like a not even a grain of sand. I mean, it's just like nothing. There's like an atom or something in this massive and and grandma ayahuasca said something like okay, so you are this is love, this humongous bubble is love. I mean, it's just enormous now. And I was like, okay. And she goes, What what could that tiny little person in there do to affect uh this bubble? And I was like, nothing. Like they're they're so ins that not insignificant, but they're just like there's didn't matter what they do, they could scream, they could yell, they could hate, they could tantrum, they could punch, they could like, like they could just do anything in and it wouldn't this bubble of love would be unfazed, would just be like, yep, I got ya, I I got ya, I can hold ya, yeah. And in that moment, I just started to weep because I understood that that love is that big. It is so big that it doesn't matter what anybody does. It's still that big and it's still there. It doesn't matter what anyone has done or not done in my life.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

My love for them is crazy. So when we lose someone we love it doesn't matter what we do, the love is so much better than that. Love is so big.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

I don't think we have to get bogged down in our behaviors. It's enough just to be human and to find our way messily and muckily and all the ways, you know, to that love. And there are moments when I know that love and I can be that love. And there are moments when I'm smaller than the person. My love is my love is the grain of sand inside of a tiny person. I mean, inside of a huge person, my love is so small, you know. So I get to oscillate between you know this cosmic love and this tiny little grain of sand, this little hard still pebble of love, you know. So um, but in in the process of grieving, I don't think we need to worry too much about behaving properly. I think it's okay just to grieve in in whatever way you need to. In whatever way you need to. And a lot of my grief after my horrible relationship with the sociopathic man um was in the mountains. That was that was my rage grief. That was kind of the it was pretty short-lived, but I remember it was intense and scary, but I'd have to go up into the mountains and just scream and just like like I was just like a mad woman with picking up sticks and hitting the ground. And I just it was so much pain and rage. It took me a long time. I mean, it didn't take me, it took me a long time to dare to express the rage. Once I did, it didn't last long. Um, and then of course afterwards the grief came. And again, like it was it, you know, it let led me to love. It led me to loving myself again, to loving life because I hated life, I hated life, and I hated life, I hated my ancestors, I hated people, I hate I hated, hated, hated, hated, hated. And finally, you know, getting over this puritanical, proper way of grieving and just allowing that process to happen.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

I'm so grateful for my meditation.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

They just they force me to stay, you know, on track, not lose, not get lost one way or the other. And a few days will go by, you know, where they're just super weak and lousy, and I'm just barely able to meditate. It's not even really me. It's just like, and then finally, you know, I'll have a solid one, it'll kind of bring me back. Oh yeah, I've been really, you know, and then so I'm just so grateful to have this practice that constantly like brings me back, brings me back, brings me back to center. And without it, I you without it, you don't even see how out of balance. Without it, I would not see how out of balance I am. I because you you can't really tell, you know, I I out from the outside I can see somebody I'm like, man, they are manic. I wonder if they know how manic they are right now, right? But I'm sure people have seen that in me, but I don't see it clearly until I come back, until you know a meditation or something brings me back to center, and then I go, Oh shit, man, I was way off, you know, way out of balance. But it's hard to see that, it's hard for me to see myself without this practice. Um, I also want to say, so one of the things that we've been talking about in this friend group is just trying to understand what happened and you know, how this person got to this decision. And you know, of course, all of us is are asking, like, you know, what can we do differently in the future, you know, so this doesn't happen again, but also just trying to understand, like, how how do you get to that place? And and are there things you can do if you see yourself going in that direction? Like, what what what can you do for yourself or even for others? So somebody shared a podcast with me. I'm pretty sure it was called Hidden Brain, but I don't, I don't, God, I can't remember what it was called at all. But it was interesting, they were looking at people who have uh go through these depressive episodes to kind of have struggles with depression, and they were looking at their brain, I can't remember what it's CAT scans, MRIs, I don't know. And what they found was they thought that sort of the default network, they were gonna find that the default network um was something was up with it, blah blah blah blah blah. So they do all these tests and they're like, oh, actually, it's not the default network. That the part of the brain, oh, that's what it they thought that they were expecting to find that the default network like went offline, was no longer working, and that's not true. What they found was that the part of the brain that sort of shut down and no longer worked was the sensory part, the part that feels, part that's aware of like I'm I can feel my body, I I I'm I can hear, I can taste, I can smell, I can see, like I'm I'm aware of these sort of like all the five sense doors are open, you know, and we all know that place, like we're watching the sunset, and our eyes are the our eyes are the doors of our eyes are open, and we're just like almost inhaling the sunset, but we're also it's like we can smell the sunset, we can taste the sunset, like we can feel that glow on our skin. I mean, we are we are literally all of our sense doors are open and we are viscerally, sensorially experiencing all of it. And that is the part of the brain that really shuts down during depression, and and it's it becomes a very I can't I don't remember, I didn't I would have to listen to it again, so um, but like it becomes a very isolating experience because you're no longer really feeling the world, you're no longer feeling, you know, you're no longer feeling with your body. And it's interesting because the type of meditation I do, vipassana, is all about the body sensations. So I am constantly scanning, you know, it can be anapana at the breath, it doesn't matter if you don't know these words, but what matters is that it's about feeling the sensations, what are the sensations in my arm, my leg, or you know, what are the sensations in my body, what is happening in my body. And I thought, all this time, all this time, I have literally practiced, I'm literally practicing the thing that my brain most needs to heal, you know, depression that I've struggled with. And the other thing that's interesting is I really took this seriously when I was going through my rape trial. Something in me was like, you have to do this. Because I'd done it for you know over a decade before my rape trial. And I was, you know, I would do it sometimes, I'd be very good at it, and then I'd go months and not be very good at it, and then I'd be good. And my rape trial comes, and something in me said, You have to sit. Well it was funny because the first year and a half of my rape trial, I was sitting three hours a day. I sat morning, noon, and night. And noon was kind of like afternoon, but somewhere in the day, I got in three. I got a morning, mid, night. And that was at least for the first year and a half. And then once I started working, I could only do morning and night. But something in me said, You have to do this. You have like you have to do this. And I'm so grateful for those messages I get because I I feel like they saved my life. I literally feel like they saved my life. I and I knew it as I was, especially at the in the beginning of the rape trial when so much when it was so intense and it was all so new, and I was trying to get used to being in that under that pressure. And I would sit down three times a day and I would feel the sensations in my body, and it would bring me back to center. And three times a day is really super great. It's even like I think it's exponentially better than two, but you know, it's asking a lot. Um, but so I, you know, and then I've just, you know, since the rape trial's been over, I've just known I just need to maintain it, like it's important to me. And then when I heard that, I was like, I understand why I need it so much. Um, because if my if I am out of balance, I tend toward depression. You know, that's the way I tip. And coming back, and I do understand kind of that numbness. And there were times, you know, during the rape trial where I would start to become numb, but then it was like the meditations would like force me back into like I've got to feel something in my body. I don't have to, but you know, you sit with yourself for an hour, you're eventually gonna start feeling things, and it's like you know, those all the sense doors were shut and I was numb, and then an hour later, you know, they they've at least they're ajar. I wouldn't say they're open, they're not wide open, but at least they've opened, you know, there could be a little breeze, you know. So meditation has been a huge part, and me staying in touch with the sensations in my body and and coming back into my body's alive and it's it feels things, and it's I'm not dead. Not I know it's weird to say, but sometimes I'd be so numb and frozen, I'd just be like I'm dead, and I'd be like, Okay, I'm not dead. I have a body and it's alive, and I can feel things. And um, so hearing that, you know, listening to that podcast, I was like, oh I I could I can understand, you know, there were times my times with my own depression where I did feel numb. Like all the sense doors are closed. I can't feel anything, I can't, it's like I just nothing's getting in. And it's interesting because I also know that place where it's like people are talking to me or saying, you know, there were times where I could tell people were trying to say things to me, and it was like I could hear, but nothing was getting in. Like whatever, even if they their affection for me, no, it wasn't getting in, or just their words of kindness not getting in, or sometimes just even your basic directions, and I'm like, I know that person's talking to me, and I have no idea what they're saying. And it was interesting because during the rape trial, I would say that to my therapist sometimes. They'd be talking to me, and I think, I don't know what they just said. And so I'd have to say, I have no idea what you just said. Like, and and I had already told them that this is something that I was working on, and they'd say, Okay, let's check in. We got it, you know, you can't understand you can't hear me enough to understand what I'm saying. You you know, you really checked out. So let's start, you know, let's feel your body, you know, let's squeeze your like, let's bring you back into your body so that your mind can actually process words, you know. So I get I get what that's like, where it's like everything just shut down and you literally feel dead. You feel dead. So it breaks my heart to say, but you feel so dead that you're like, what it what have I got to lose? You know, but it's like it's just it's a lie. You just I'm like just so I feel I honestly feel so lucky, just that I you know, I've had some kind of little wisdom inside of me, or angels, or ancestors, or I don't even know, but things telling, you know, telling me what I need to do to get through what I'm about to go through. And I just feel really lucky. And I recently asked someone else, you know, I wasn't thinking about it. We went on a hike and we were up in the mountains, and I said, you know, we were just talking about hard stuff, and I said, Hey, like I have something I'd like to ask you. Um, and I said, you know, if I ever find myself in a place where can I call you and say these words? I'm not safe with myself, I can't be alone with myself, you know, and they were just immediately like they just gave me a huge hug, and they were like, A million, like do not even hesitate, like call me anything, just anything, like it would be such a privilege. And it's funny because now that I've I'm asking people, it's getting easier to ask. There's and which I knew it would. I was just it's like that first one's always the hardest, but and so everybody's been so kind and just like, yes, like ask, like it's you know, it's not a burden, it's an honor that you would ask me, it's an honor that you would share this with me. It's like, you know, and I also feel like I've chosen the people that you know that would, and not there's one of them that I'm yeah, but whatever, you know, so and again, it was like something in me told me, like, you need to set up this safety net. And again, it's interesting because I realized at first it was like, if I need to set up that safety net, what does it mean about me? Like, I'm probably gonna, but I've I've done this too many times in life, and so many times it's like I need to do the act, and then it's almost like the act removes the need for it, so to speak. And I'm not saying that I won't need it, but that fear is gone. The fear that I might need it is gone, the fear that I might need to ask is gone, like all the fears are gone around it, and it's just it's just like, oh, okay, I might find myself in a place where that's true. I know how to ask, I know the people who to ask, and there you go. So I it's like I'm no longer afraid that it might happen or could happen because I know I can because I did. And it's that's been such a strange and and powerful thing. Um, and again, it's that it's it's that judgment thing, you know, that we we shouldn't behave. Like if if it's that thing again where, well, if someone's going around asking for that, then they may really need help. And they may really blah blah blah blah blah. And it's like, no, they may be really fucking smart, and maybe maybe really tenacious, and they're like, I want to live, and uh, I want to make sure. And so, I mean, I honestly think it's I think it's one of the most mentally healthy things to do is when you're fine, is to say, or or but use is to say, hey, you know, I actually have this weakness and I might need help. You know, will you help me? I mean, I can't think of anything meant more mentally healthy, but I can see so many people that would judge that and be like, she's crazy and she da, and I think, well, I'm probably a lot saner than a lot of people because I see. I see and I listen and I act from a place of wisdom and passion and intelligence and intuitiveness and a lot of creativity, you know. I don't I'm sure I'm sure I could I haven't read all these books. I'm sure I could probably go read a book and find what I just did somewhere in some book somewhere, but I haven't read it, so for me it was creative. I thought of it myself, and what matters is I thought of it for myself because it's what I needed. That's the brilliance of it, and same thing with grieving. What do you need to do to grieve and get past all the judgment? Remember that love is bigger than you can imagine. You're just this big, and love is this big, and it doesn't matter what you do, you are still in this enormous bubble of love.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

That's what love is.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

Now it doesn't mean I uh certainly and other people certainly don't act like that all the time, but it's something it's good to know.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

It's good to know.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

So I'm gonna head off to my friends now before the evening gets too late. I am so lucky this summer. I have a friend who I worked at a a uh plant and outdoor nursery, plant nursery in college. We ran into each other last summer and have reconnected, and she and her husband have literally huge, I don't even know if it's an eight, I don't know, it's a huge garden, enormous, and they should plant everything and it's just like the best, and their soil is incredible. I mean, it's just literally the the the and they have irrigation, actually have irrigation waters, and they're they like I call it the Roman aqueducts of irrigation. I mean, you should see the way the water just flows down the rows and teared down, and I mean it's just fabulous. Well, so they went on a sick, they got everything ready, you know. I would just go over and visit while they I mean they spent the first two, you know, two months of summer getting everything ready. And then they went away for six weeks and they were like, like, do you want to just kind of like come? And I was like, Oh, I would love to come tend, you know, like make sure that the tomatoes are going up the right way and the squash and the cucumbers and do this and do this and um and there's nobody I she's like she was like, and eat anything you want, like eat everything, like. We're not here. And I was like, well, but you uh when she said that I said, Well, you have to be careful because I'm really selfish and I will literally eat like the whole garden. Like, is there are you sure there's nobody else that's gonna come and like want stuff? Cause they'll come and there won't be anything here because I'm just gonna harvest everything. And she's like, No, I mean this garden is huge, there's no way I can eat it all already. I'm just like, oh my gosh, like I'm gonna have to start giving away some stuff because there's too much here. But I get to go and tend the most beautifully loved, fabulous garden um all summer and just reap the rewards and just eat the most delicious. And here's the thing is because they put so much into their soil over the years, I mean, it's just the most beautiful soil you've ever seen, but the plants are gorgeous, and then the the fruits and vegetables are to die for. I mean, the flavors, like my body just is like I go to the store now and I'm like, oh, it looks at everything and goes, yuck, go to the garden. And I'm like, okay, you know, go to the garden, go harvest it yourself because there's nothing in the store that that has anything that's nutritionally interesting to your body, go to the garden. I'm just like, okay, so I get to spend, I'm lucky. I mean, I do have to go to the garden and harvest my own food. Um, but I get to have I get to reap the rewards of this fabulous garden all summer. Um, and I just feel so I don't even know how I feel like it just like fell in my lap, and I'm just like the luckiest person in the world. So, and my friend thinks that she's like, I'm just so delighted that you'll take care of it while we're gone. I'm just like, oh my gosh, you don't even know like the gift you've given me. So, anyway, so I'm gonna go up and see the beautiful garden and my latest, just so you know, are beet greens. My body's loving the beet greens and the the shallots and chives are fabulous, and the mint and the basil, the cucumbers are amazing, tomatoes. Um, I haven't had a squash yet. I picked a couple of squashes. Oh, and the peppers, all the different kinds of peppers she does. Oh, and the beans. Oh my gosh, the beans, I don't like beans. No, these beans, these I think they're called long pole beans, they're super long, and then she's got some purple ones. I mean, she plants like all these things, and I just and I know plants, but she plants things. I'm like, I didn't know that was even a thing. Oh I think I told you I got to plant my corn, the beautiful corn from New Mexico, and it's just took off, and all right, I can see some little corn silk tufts coming out, and so it's gonna be literally like magical for me to be able to harvest and look at them in the fall. It just remember forever ago when I planted it the first time, and all the many deaths that have happened between then and now, and all the life that's available. You know, that's what my friend and I we were talking about. He's gone that we were on the hike when I told you about recently, and he's gone through some hard stuff, and he was like, you know, yeah, I've really gone through a lot of loss and had to like grieve some things. And we were talking about as you get older, you know, the commitment to live again. Um it's a commitment because when you're young, you have this naivety, you you're like, go get and you kind of think it's just all gonna work out, and then the decades go by and you're like, shit, like everybody's life, you know, there will be loss of some kind.

SPEAKER_01 47:59

Um and so as you get older to keep committing to like living uh there's a you have there's a maturity that comes with that commitment because you're committing to life knowing that it's it is fraught with loss. Um, but you also know all the other treasures that are there. So I'm going to keep grieving in the ways that work for me.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

Um I'm going to continue to honor other people's processes um and notice when I have a bias or a judgment about it.

SPEAKER_01 48:51

Yeah, remember how big love is. That there's plenty of room for people to agree in the ways they need.

SPEAKER_00 49:01

At least in my heart. In my heart. And I I believe those that have gone before us have a lot of compassion because they've been here. They know how hard it is to be human. And they probably have a lot of love and compassion for us as we go through uh what we need to.

SPEAKER_01 49:22

And I hope that grieving becomes as beautiful as laughter, that we can laugh and cry in the same minute and that our griefs are as varied as our eyebrows and our irises and our fingerprints.

SPEAKER_00 49:54

What if our grief is as unique as our fingerprints? I don't think that's an overstatement at all. I think it's the most honest statement.

SPEAKER_01 50:12

And if that is true, then there is no way.

SPEAKER_00 50:24

That there's only one way or a few ways, or even whatever, the seven stages of pre-far. I think I'm gonna have about 15 stages because I've got a lot of emotion. I wanna know where confusion goes on that thing. I don't think I've ever seen confusion, but I have to tell you this thing has left me so confused.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

So confused about what life and death really are.

SPEAKER_00 50:50

It's like reframed something that I can't quite put my finger on yet, but life and death are not don't have the same meaning, definition, understanding that they once did. So it's kind of been a whole washing away and stamping on a new one.

SPEAKER_01 51:26

I really miss my friend.